At practice at least, Sharks forward lines shuffled
CALGARY — Don’t ask me to make sense of all this, and I can’t say with any certainty that it will have any resemblance to the lines that will skate Tuesday night in Game 4, but here’s how things lined up at the afternoon skate. The more observant will note that there are four players on the top line:
Ryane Clowe-Joe Thornton-Jonathan Cheechoo-Devin Setoguchi
Patrick Marleau-Joe Pavelski-Milan Michalek
Tomas Plihal-Torrey Mitchell-Mike Grier
Jody Shelley-Marcel Goc-Jeremy Roenick
Patrick Rissmiller-Curtis Brown
As I mentioned to Ron Wilson, if he was trying to confuse me (or, perhaps, the Flames), he succeeded.
Christian Ehrhoff did skate for the full practice and it’s not out of the realm of possibility that he’ll be in Game 4.
And, for a coach whose team blew a 3-0 lead on Sunday, Wilson was in a pretty good mood. When one Calgary reporter asked him which Flames goalie he expected to see on the ice Tuesday night — Miikka Kiprusoff or Curtis Joseph — Wilson hesitated, then offered a third alternative:
“Mike Vernon. I don’t know, I hope Mike Vernon.”
Hey, at 45, Vernon — the onetime Flames and Sharks goalie — is only a little older than Joseph, no?
Hey thanks David for the details on the morning skate…it’s always helpful…and confusing at the same time sometimes. I hope we see Seto going in for Shelley. I love Shelley but he can’t fight in the playoffs, and he can’t intimidate unless he plays more, which doesn’t seem like he will. So having Seto go in to add some speed might help. Most importantly though, Big Joe and Milan has to wake up quickly!
Hey Kevin or anyone that might go to Calgary for Game 6, got a question/request here. I live in Saskatoon, and so it’s hard for me to get any Sharks Territory products. I’ve been trying to get one of those “Sharks Territory” signs to put in my company. Shipping from Sharks store costs more than the sign itself! So if possible, I was wondering if there’s any way someone can bring one up to Calgary and ship it to me. We can figure out some way to get you the payment. I know it’s a long shot, but I love the Sharks and it might be worth a shot
Pleeeease Kevin or somebody!
OH SORRY…I meant DAVID…not Kevin…what was I thinking…sorry David.
RW probably spent the morning working on his resume. No wonder he’s in a good mood. He is looking forward to moving to an area where gas prices are below $3.90/gallon for a change.
Actually, that was a good one about Vernon. I hope we’ll see Artur Irbe in goal for us, and DW on the defense. Perhaps that’s what we need to overcome our devils.
That has to be one of the stupidest questions asked so far this year. Yeah Kipper is going sit, he sucks, he may even be released.
Are reporters actually paid for asking such insightful questions?
BTW -
here is a good picture of the “clean” hit. Since his right eye is bleeding, and the board is on the left, it really makes you wonder what the league is thinking. I bet if the hit was on Crosby, Sarich’s season was over. Look at where the elbow is.
http://sharkspage.com/jpgs4/sarich_hit_marleau1.jpg
Ivano,
It may have been a dirty hit, but the right eye cut had nothing to do with it. That was cut earlier on a different check.
Good pic Ivano. Still, it’s hard to see if his elbow was up or not because it’s hidden by his body. Anyone have a pic from a different angle?
Ivano, You must not have seen the first hit that caused the cut above Marleau’s eye when he tried to avert an icing call.
Marleau’s nose was bloodied due to the un-clean hit by Sarich.
Y -
I thought that from Sarich’ hit Marleau started bleeding from both his nose and the eye. Might not remember it well.
That’s correct.. You can see where the picture was picked up from. http://youtube.com/watch?v=xPRWKOb7iV4
Not remember it well? Ivano…I’m disappointed. You don’t remember the Its-not-a-hit-in-the-back-or-interference-its-just-great-defense
play by Phaneuf that cut Marleau’s eye open?
BTW guys, I heard Don Cherry tonight…that guy seems like a tard. He would blab on and on about whatever he wanted and any time his “partner” would try and butt in, he would interrupt him. Don Cherry even told the guy to shut up once.
Canadien commentators - dumbo’s leading dumbo’s
I really hope tomorrow night is reminiscent of Game 2
#3 - link to hit…
Man the pic is blurry, like Comcast std-def, but if I’m not mistaken, Sarich may have actually left his feet — upper right image. And it’s been told that Marleau had his head down. I don’t think so — the upper left image.
GP
Bang on there, Ivano (and thanks for the link to the pic).
You can clearly see the elbow driving up and into Marleau’s head. Patty was cut (again), lost his helmet, and almost lost his head. CBC color guy Craig Simpson called it ‘clean’, as did all the Canadian media in Toronto i watched Monday. Cavemen like Don Cherry make it unmasculine for Cdn broadcasters to call hits like these dirty (especially in the playoffs). Slip in an elbow to the guy’s head on a big hit? It was “the shoulder”. Scott Stevens on Lindros? The shoulder. “C’mon, refs- let ‘em play!” Makes me sick sometimes.
Still, after Patty takes a dirty hit, only Matt Carle swatting at Sarich just doesn’t cut it. Someone had to drop the gloves & show the Flames that it’s not acceptable- by pounding Sarich (or Celine Dion Phaneuf or Iginla).
I sure hope Ehrhoff IS back for Tuesday’s game. McClaren & Rivet look like they’re skating in cement, & Carle is too soft and indecisive.
As for potental line changes, RW should stick with what worked for the Sharks for 54 minutes in game 1, and all of game two. At least when you get 40+ shots you know that you’re spending most of the game in the other team’s end. Unlike Sunday night.
That image blows and doesn’t definitively show anything. I, for one, think the elbow came high. But that image is about as clear as McLaren’s elbow.
The team and RW have obviously moved on from it, shouldn’t the rest of us?
Ivano, I’m not sure why you think that RW might lose his job if the Sharks don’t get further. Yes, it could happen. Not going to argue the possibility. However, he’s been an integral part of the process of the team growing in the method they’ve attempted. The progress has been outstanding and the results have been demonstrated. And I think the truth is, they may not be done yet with acquiring or developing any possible missing pieces. We’ll see next season, eh?
The Sharks need Soupy for a whole season. Maybe give Boucher a slightly bigger role as backup GT next season, too many other possibilities and too early to talk about yet.
Point is, I don’t see RW getting fired even we get bounced in the 1st. I don’t think that’s going to happen though. This team is too good. I think if we lose, some players will be moved, just a couple though.
They’ve created their own adversity. It’s not the officiating and there is no Canadian team/NHL conspiracy to overcome either. Calgary is who they have to beat. Last night, the players allowed themselves get beat. That reminds me; No ONE should pay any attention to Purdy. He hasn’t paid attention. Just a couple more articles than our buddy Kawakami. He probably he even forgot he wrote an article about an accountability process. It isn’t the past coming to haunt this team. And thinking they have forgotten about the past — I seriously doubt it. It is what spawned the process.
Goaliepuke,
Ron Wilson is so gone if the Sharks lose this series its not even funny. What results are you talking about that demonstrate “progress”? Being knocked out in the first round after making it to the second last year and the year before, only to be out-coached every series? Frankly I would have fired him after the game Sunday night and let him figure out how to get back from Calgary to pick up his belongings.
GoaliePuke,
I agree with you that RW should not be fired. I don’t think it’s all his fault. I do think your dreaming that he won’t get fired after a first round exit. I think if they lose in rounds 1 or 2 he’s gone. If they lose in the conference final it’s 50/50. If they win it all or lose in the finals I think he’s safe. It may not be fair but how often in sports today does the coach get the blame for a underachieving team….
SacBen, I will say we’ve seen some interesting firings in hockey. The most recent ones, somewhat illogical were both in NJ. Robby Fetorik and Claude Julian. Both with just a few games left in the season. Fetorik, I think it was because he somehow didn’t get along with the players and Julian — the GM didn’t think the team was ready for the playoffs.
So ya, it could happen. I wouldn’t be surprised even if I don’t think it will happen.
Speaking of round 2. I do hesitate to look fwd. But, it interesting that there is a good chance we’d see the Wild for the second round. More in the 2nd rnd of what we’re seeing in the 1st — eh?
Back to reality and the 1st round games. Hmmmm. Does anyone know what happened with Wings/Preds? Yes, The Wings blew it. Up 3-2 in the 3rd too. It would be a better analogy though if the Preds were up in the series 2-1 instead.
GP
Enh.
The Wild are a strong defensive team, but watching their series with the Avs, their system isn’t anything like Calgary’s.
Calgary’s whole strategy is to generate lots of pressure up ice and try to force the opposing team to give the puck away in its own end. They’ll get going in transition once in a while, but most of their scoring comes from either point shots or crash-the-net garbage. In their own end, they’re pretty average except for Phaneuf, and rely heavily on Kipper to keep them in games.
Minny’s system, in contrast, is to clog the neutral zone and force the opponent to play dump-and-chase. Their scoring is the opposite of Calgary’s — most of it’s off transition plays, when they can move the puck quickly up ice to Gaborick or Rolston. They’re snipers, not muckers and grinders. Unlike Calgary, they’re much more fundamentally sound in their defensive zone, so don’t need to rely as heavily on their goalie.
So yeah, both teams play a trap-style game, but they’re very different flavors of trap.
Oh, and the Wild play a relatively clean game, as opposed to the cheap-shot artist Lames. So there’s that.
was the hit clean? was his elbow above his waist? Are the Flames a bunch of big meanies? Those are questions for a team that has no answers to the Flames forecheck and toughness.
Nabby is right, time for boys to become men. Paddy was the only man on the ice Sunday night. Maybe the rest of the team can suit up tonight.
btw: can Shelley do anything other than run his mouth? Are those gloves sewn to his hands? Time to step up big guy.
I’d like to see RW on a couple of shifts put Shelley out there on Marleau’s line and give that bastard Sarich some hugs and kisses. The sharks have the best talent in the league, but their will is being tested and they need to show that its tempered with iron.
After watching that youtube clip from #6, I realized that I almost forgot how crappy those announcers were. They call a potential match penalty hit “perfect” and are almost cheering the fames on the whole game.
Did any of you fire off a nasty email to versus yet?
feedback@versus.com
Thanks for the link Dick… don’t mind if I do!
I want to see lines changed. I want to see more J.R. Are we gonna miss Cheechoo, Mihalik or Greer’s scoring by replacing them J.R.? At least he will be fighting and clawing his ass off to win. He also won’t turn the other cheek all night.
The CBC announcers are not bad. In fact, their team of broadcasters is the best in the business. Granted, the crew calling this game is their third line, but I really think it just takes getting used to how they call the games up there. Of course, their “home” team in this series is Calgary, so there is going to be a bias.
The truth is, after watching countless out-of-market games on center ice, that we are really lucky to have Randy and Drew. We get great entertainement all season from those two. We’re probably spoiled and I like it. Try watching the feed from the Nashville game sometime. Painful.
My big problem is that versus is broadcasting the CBC feed. I’m no stranger to CBC broadcasts, especially HNIC which I really enjoy watching, but I don’t think our only national channel that will play NHL games should be relying on a Canadian feed. I’m sure versus is saving a lot of money by picking up on their feed rather than assign a broadcast team to work the series. I just wish they could at least pretend to be a little more neutral. It also bothers me that the play by play guy sounds just like David Gregory from msnbc. Frankly, it’s annoying. With all the hockey I watch, I’m a bit surprised I’ve never heard him before all this.
By far the worst homer announcers in the universe belong to the Avalanche. Every time Peter Forsberg draws a penalty, you’d think that he just suffered a cheap shot that’s going to leave him in traction for six months. Every time Joe Sakic scores, you’d think they’re going to come down from the press box and fellate him.
Atlanta’s announcers are pretty serious homers, too, but in a funny way. I remember last year when the Sharks were beating the crap out of the Thrashers; after a Joe Thornton goal, the Atlanta play-by-play guy fumed, “So now Joe Thornton has a goal to go with the three million assists he has tonight.” Hilarious stuff.
If an announcer can’t take the time to properly pronounce all of the players in a series he/she’s covering then they don’t deserve their job. It’s called phonetics, not hard to read when a name is written out phonetically for you!!
Mih-hall-ik not mik-ay-lick
He couldn’t even decide how to mis-pronounce Milan’s name either. I think he got confused because the Coyotes pronounce the name like mi kall ick instead of mi hall ick. I guess it’s too hard to actually ask him how to pronounce it. That would take work, and they’re probably too busy in the phlegms locker room.
I didn’t realize Milan was on the ice.
Ooooohhhhhh - Brian Boitano takes home the comment of the day
Brian Boitano is back? Where have you been… finally finished shooting the sequel to Blades of Glory? ; - )
if Mike Vernon plays, he would probably outplay choker nabokov too, just like Cujo did.
and mick-stale-ick can go to hell. the way he is loafing is a disgrace. he is one of the reasons for the Sharks being down in the series.
Sorry, the forwards and defensemen are not the problem. Nabby is. Nabby is not a clutch goalie. A clutch/championship goalie can’t give up 4 goals in crucial game like that.
As long as Nabby is here, the sharkie aint gonna do much. The Wilsons, coach and GM, can blame other players but they both must look at the elephant in the room NOW if they want to succeed.
I can’t believe I read Purdy’s crap today. I knew better. I think Ann Killion wrote the opinion/article for him. It said nothing new, stated some obvious thoughts and blamed the loss on the big hit. Maybe the only thing he said differently was put words in DW mouth.
This is how we are going to win tonight. Put Clowe on the first line with Thornton and Cheech. Bench Milan. Put Setagouchi back on Marleau’s line where he belongs. Sit McLauren and lets see if Erhoff is ready. Roll all four lines and forecheck the crap out of them. Take more shots from the point and crash the net. Get back to the hockey that we were playing at the end of the regular season
Wfan1, Go back to the warriors blog and make your comments to that hockey genius Kawakami. Nabby is an All-Star caliber goalie. You have no clue what you’re talking about.
#27, I think it was his first sharks column where he didn’t say Los Tiburones, which in my opinion is getting kind of old.
Purdy had a great line today though:
It is also time for Milan Michalek, the Sharks’ second-leading goal scorer this season, to start using his size and muscle to create more space for himself and Thornton, instead of skating around aimlessly while browsing the sideboard ads.
Final score predictions?
Mine: Sharks 5 - Flames 1
Clowe drops the gloves.
Shelley sits.
Sharks score in the first 2 minutes.
2 goals off power plays.
Flames goal off a bad bounce.
Sharks erase all “heart” concerns.
Oh, one more thing… Keenan cries about officiating. Wait, that’s more of a given than a prediction.
1) I just read David Pollak’s article. Thank You So Much for the sanity you published all season and especially now. It’s almost like a white glove challenge to Purdy — write something relevent Purdy!
2) wfan1 should be read as wfanZERO. Ignored!
3) IMO, the “heart” issue is a non-issue. Our captain has proven that when he got up — twice.
Again, hind sight — Patty should have said, “it may have been a legal hit guys. No matter, did you all get his number? And, pick your spot — it’s still early!”
Instead, we will see something in this game.
GP
no, wake the hell up. he is right on the money.
who blew last year’s series vs Det? Nabokov, that’s who. the team outplayed the Wings in that series, had it won, and the little choker HANDED the wings an open net goal to turn the whole series around.
if anyone should be looking in the mirror about choking in the playoffs, it is the boy Nabokov
Sorry GP - I have to agree with Purdy both today and yesterday. I am sick and tired of listening to “we just have to play better” and “we have to learn our lesson and come out better tomorrow.” Enough already! The Sharks have gone out the same exact way 3 seasons in a row - if they make it 4, then it’s time for change. If they haven’t learned their lesson and figured out what it takes to win in the playoffs by now, they obviously never will. Time for a new coaching staff and time for a new Captain.
Now, I’m not advocating getting rid of Marleau - I think he’s proving that the Detroit series is behind him; but I don’t think he’s Captain material. You always hear that teams take on the personality of their Captain; well, that doesn’t bode well for the playoffs if your Captain is a perennial Lady Byng candidate. You know what they say: nice guys finish last.
The hits on Marleau were just that, hits. It’s called hockey. The Flames played with intensity, the Sharks put their tails between their legs.
If Crosby takes a hit like that, he takes the hit. Crosby’s no crybaby like a Selanne. He plays and takes it. But the one thing you would see from Pittsburgh is Crosby’s teammates sticking up for him. (And Georges Laroque getting more ice time.)
a REGULAR SEASON goalie, yes.
but not in the playoffs. he has choked more often than he has played well in the postseason. just look at last year. period.
all the pollyanna bs will not change that fact.
Goaliepuke and SacramentoBen, #10 and #11 -
If RW barely kept his job last season, how will he retain it this season unless we play in a Stanley Cup final? Judging by regular season, we have as good of a squad as anyone in the league (thank you, DW), but players will start leaving if they know they can’t win the Cup here (I imagine Campbell will think twice about staying here if we can’t beat Calgary, since he mentioned many times his first priority is to be on a winning squad). We’ve seen the same playoff scenario for too long.
RW will be the first one to let go. I assume few other players will also follow.
Ivano,
If Campbell doesn’t start playing better he can leave. Sure he was superman since we got him, but in the playoffs he has awful. I swear he is on the take.
If the Sharks make an early exit, I can’t see the Tank selling out more than half the games next season, no matter who returns. Fool me once, shame on me… fool me twice, shame on me… fool me three times…?
I agree with brian. I’d like to save judgment for after tonights game, but my non-hockey watching friend saw the writing on the wall after the second hit on Marleau. I want to be proven wrong, i really do. I want to invest (financially) in the team. Unless they get past the second round, becoming a (new) Sharks season ticket holder is a BAD investment.
It would be like investing in a company that’s lost money 3 years in a row and is not doing ANYTHING differently, even when the playing field has tilted in their favor (home ice advantage). A first round elimination as the 2 seed? Its not unheard of, but for a team that made it to the second round as a 5 seed and just set a record for points in a season (stupid shootout, freakin garbage rule), anything less than game 7 of the Conference Finals against Detroit is an EPIC failure.
Uh oh, it’s the fire RW and Marleau crowd again. Seriously, are you guys totally in panic mode, or does it just appear that way?
Brian Boitano, Ever hear of a guy named Joe Sakic? Ron Francis perhaps? Or maybe a guy named Wayne Gretzky?
WSUCanuck is now getting hockey lessons from someone that doesn’t watch hockey? How bizarre is that?
Come on guys lets have some positive thoughts here. Were not done the sharks just need to win. GO SHARKS!!!
I’ve heard of them, their golfers.
What is your point, Dick? I think your sarcasm didn’t translate to your post.
For the record, I’ve been in the fire RW crowd since last spring, if only for the ridiclous in-game line shuffling he pulls. Bring on Jamie Baker as bench boss.
Not Patty, though. He’s a good chap.
Come on guys lets have some positive thoughts here. Were not done the sharks just need to win. GO SHARKS!!!
Skylark: I was attempting to demonstrate that I had faith in that this season was different than last season. I believe many posters here still have that faith, and I feel like a fool for having that faith.
I hope i get proved wrong.
RW gets crap if he changes lines too much when they’re doing well, and if he keeps them the same if they aren’t, so I don’t see that as a very good indication of how well he’s coaching the team. Lots of coaches do the exact same thing. When you have a few guys that are having great nights, why not put them together.
My sarcastic point about those other players was meant to point out to you that there have been Captains and other great leaders of teams that have won the Lady Bing for great sportsmanship. Are you saying that you’d rather have the Sharks be a dirty team like a certain one down south? Personally, I don’t want our Captain doing stupid things like getting himself suspended.
http://www.mercurynews.com/sharks/ci_8929320
#33: Brian. Please read Davids article if you haven’t already.
I’ve read the same complaint about playoff exits every season now. They thought it was fixed last season with adding Grier and Brown. Turned out it wasn’t enough. They addressed the problems in a more constructive way — then added a top D-man. The players are actually saying that. They are NOT just saying “we have to play better.” I am tired of hearing the same ol’ complaint about resilliancy. They have addressed and probably fixed the “known” issues as much as they can this season. Now they just need to execute. There are no guaranteed wins.
This is maybe the hardest season the Sharks have ever played. And they shined in the end. This playoff series is a microcosm of the whole season. Purdy — the argument is obsolete. That an excuse that is convenient for those who haven’t paid enough attention. There are no excuses. In a playoff loss this season, the problems will be addressed more specifically. The process has worked, IMO, and they would be foolish to abandon it.
I hope you get proven wrong too Brian.
Im not brian. Patrick Marleau is not anything close to a Gretzky or a Francis or a Sakic. Marleau does not hold any NHL records, playoff or regular season.
Your color guy is Drew Remenda right? Canadian boy, there’s a reason he’s not a CBC, because he sucks. And calling out the CBC broadcast team, what a joke. I have Centre Ice and have listened to your bush announcers and they are as biased as they come.
The Stanley Cup is the hardest trophy to win in pro sports and when you have no heart like the Sharks you will never win the cup. Go Flames.
Sorry, Dick. Miscommunication. I don’t want Patty playing dirty, either. Honestly, I wouldn’t be happy celebrating a cup victory by way of intentional injuries or (illegal) play. That’s not the Sharks style. However, we do need to be gritty and hit guys clean and legal.
As far as RW goes, he needs to go because he doesn’t promote team chemistry. Line shuffling is common, I know, but if a guy has a bad shift there always seems to be a change. IMO, let the guys on the line work it out with each other, at least in game. Make all the changes you want between games. BTW, I’m not sure if anyone else noticed, but after the third (or fourth) goal on Sunday, the camera went straight to Ronnie who robotically said “Come on, let’s go.” Not the most inspiring words at that moment. Another reason he needs to go.
The fact that one of you actually put Marleau’s name with Gretzky, Sakic or Francis is absolutly hiliarious. Just proves what most of you know about hockey, those guys are all first ballot Hall of Famers. Marleau will be in the Sharks Hall of Shame for never producing when it counts. He’s not even in the top 40 players from Canada.
If it is Drew Remenda that is the color guy, he coached juniors in my hometown. The Lloyminster Lancers of the SJHL, in Lloydminster, Saskatchewan.
WSU, I’d of never guessed you had faith in the process they’ve implemented. I would say there is plenty of proof that you don’t need to feel foolish. I am not going to feel foolish IF they get bounced. I would be just as if not more disappointed than the “naysayer” and dare I say, “faithless” crowd. The games must be played and “hockey happens.” That means I am also not going to set minimums on what the Sharks must accomplish. I have seen the organization stick to there strategy and succeed.
The game is played on the ice:
In the past, twice, if remember correctly, we’ve bounced the President’s Cup team out — Wings and Blues. Why, Because the games actually got played. And wasn’t it two seasons ago, Oilers bounced us in the second round. Seed 1-4 were bounced in the first round. We were 5th and had home ice vs the Oilers. 1-4 getting bounced — that was an oddity wasn’t it? But the Oilers…everyone would say they didn’t have the best team. Why they won and got to the finals isn’t the point. The point is, they made the finals because anything can happen. Just like the Sharks in six. Or, just like the possibility of a not as good Flems could win in 5.
Ivano, About Campbell. I think he might think the opposite. Joe is here for a while. And, because he has a bit of pride, I think he would want stay. He’d have something to prove, IMO. He hasn’t been stellar in the second season. I think he knows it.
GP
The only bright spot I saw in Game 3 was finally beating Kiprusoff more than twice in a game, and doing it on fewer than 40 shots.
#34 - “If RW barely kept his job last season, how will he retain it this season unless we play in a Stanley Cup final?”
How do you know he “barely” kept his job last year? Because of what you and a bunch of other people felt should have happened?
And as far as RW shuffling the lines, this year wasn’t anywhere as bad as last year. Thornton and Pavelski have said already that it’s been great being able to keep the lines together for the majority of the season. Shuffling lines in the during a 60min battle is part of the game!
46: As a fan (and potential investor) I have to look at the economics of the situation as well as “hockey is hockey”.
What I see is an organization that has top tier talent and great execution when it comes to winning 1/82 games. When it comes down to winning 4/7 games, they have not fared well, despite having advantages. The Flames are the only team the Sharks have not had an advantage against in the playoffs since they played…. the Flames.
They had the advantage on St. Louis and Colorado, but lost to Calgary. They had the advantage on Nashville and Edmonton, but couldn’t finish. They had the advantage on Nashville and Detroit, but couldn’t finish. For whatever reason, they can not finish, and in its wake, the loadbearers of these failures have been the fans.
Ticket prices went up before 06-07 with the promise of better performance, and the improvement was not realized/actualized. Ticket prices went up before 07-08 with the promise of changes and better performance, and after tonight, we’ll have a better idea as to how they’re doing.
Ticket prices keep going up with the fans buying into the system because they believe. At what point do you stop “Believing” and start realizing that it is a failed investment? When will/should people start believing that they’re being had by the Sharks ownership who doesn’t cater to the season ticket owner who sees the Sharks as an investment (their real base)?
I say that because the Sharks have been focusing too much on the casual fan and the “Fans” that don’t see the Sharks as an investment opportunity, but a tax write-off opportunity (luxury box owners and some/most? season ticket holders with VIP seats. Thats not a real fan. Thats a schmuck taking advantage of the system, and should ticket prices go up after this season without any sign of a good return on investment, i would hope that more real fans rethink their investment strategy and put it into something that pays back (like oil prices, hahaha) rather than an ownership group that only wants to make money rather than be successful and make money.
I’m ambivalent about whether or not I’d like to see Ron Wilson leave. On one hand, I do agree that he’s a big part of the Sharks recent success. But I’m not sure I’m on board with his coaching style. I think he’s part of the reason the Sharks aren’t bigger hitters. I enjoy a more physical game, and I really miss having a true goon on the team like Link Gaetz or Lyndon Byers. Adding Jody Shelley was definitely an improvement, but I still wish we had a more colorful goon, and I wish the Sharks coach would play the goon more often.
The #1 quip of the day: “Brian Boitano” on the disappearing act of that pu%*y, Milan. When will Milan show up? I predict he’ll be scratched in favour of Seto.
Maybe you shouldn’t think of them as an “investment” but rather as entertainment. As far as that goes, I’ve been quite entertained ever since I’ve been a Sharks fan. Yes, even during those awful years when I used to buy a ticket at the window, the day of the game.
Can you spare us the downer talk. You’re messing with my mojo for tonite, dude.
Skylark: I definitely see where you’re coming from. I have been entertained as well, but i just don’t see the benefit in paying 33-150 dollars per game to be entertained when i could watch it at home for free.
“if I’m not mistaken, Sarich may have actually left his feet”
Actually, they both left their feet. That’s what happens when you get absolutely rocked.
…”the elbow” started off a lot higher, Sarich is a big guy. If you want to see what it looks like when a big guy ACTUALLY elbows someone:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hzlI1TqL6w <==Pronger
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U7jUbKQYdw <==Stevens
…there’s your benchmark. Long story short, if Marleau has his head in the play, he doesn’t get rocked.
RE: Don Cherry, yea…he’s an idiot. The only pleasure I can derive from watching him (which, living in the west, I rarely have to do…he’s an East/Leafs guy and appears in the intermission of the first game on the weekly double-headers) is that Ron (his “sidekick”) usually slips a few good digs past him. Kelly Hrudey is a much better analyst.
The hit was “perfect”. So was the turn-around it set up. If anyone wants to whine, their complaints should be directed towards the Sharks folding like an origami lay-z-boy.
Enjoy the game tonight, know I will.
Don’t forget the $7 beers. I sure don’t make that kind of money. Of course I live out of the area too, but I am more than happy to shell out the money for the Center Ice Package.
Hey if that’s too much money, come down to Bakersfield and get seats on the glass for $25 a piece. Seriously. Our beers are only $6.50 too! I think the bud light is cheaper, but I don’t drink that watered down stuff. More fighting too if you’re in to that part of the game.
It’s really not the same as going to a Sharks game. I’m not trying to fool anyone here. It is still live hockey though.
Actually if you look at the average ticket prices in the nhl, the sharks, are one of the lowest. I live in upstate New York and a ticket to a Buffalo game or Pittsburgh game is extremely higher. Sharks playoff tickets in the lower bowl are cheaper than either of those teams in the regular season playing Columbus or some other bunk team. Keep buying tickets because teams now know the tank is always one of the loudest, you yourself can be a good teammate. 18,000 is even better.
For Sharks fans you guys sure have a lot of faith. How about the Sharks win tonight, come home, win again and then make calgary get back on their heels. Also, anyone down with pulling a tanya harding on Iginla and his stupid gotti mohawk. Tickets to Calgary will be funded by David Pollack.
just to be clear re: the elbows
I’m only referring to 1, 2, 5, 7, 8, & 9 out of the Stevens clips…not sad to see him out of the game.
Sounds good to me GoE Thornton! Love the username by the way. I’m hoping their fauxhawks will have about the same effect that the Blues bleaching their hair a few years back had.
I live in Sunnyvale and I subscribe to CEntre Ice. I think its a better investment in entertainment than Sharks season tix because if the Sharks or Canucks don’t make the playoffs (or get eliminated early), I have lots of other first and second round games to choose from.
that comes in handy in days like today when the NHL schedules 5/6 playoff games on the same day.
I want to invest (financially) in the team. Unless they get past the second round, becoming a (new) Sharks season ticket holder is a BAD investment.
Buying tickets to sporting events is not an investment. It’s entertainment. If you’re treating it as an investment, then you’re an idiot.
BC
Tell that to the people that can write it off as a business expense. Tell that to the ticket brokers who can write off tickets not sold as a loss. Tell that to the family of four who can’t afford to go to a game.
The NHL is a business.
I still dont see how that hit isnt clean, I went through the video frame by frame and although its blurry, it looks like he led with the shoulder and Marleau had his head down. Check out time 00:09, thats an instant before the hit and clearly the shoulder is ready and Marleau is looking up ice and I dont see where Sarich left his feet either.
I guess in hockey you can be hit cleanly and if your head isnt up and your stick isnt on the ice (oldest saying in hockey) you can still get hurt and bleed. I would imagine a shoulder into a visor into the face might cause a bloody nose, but maybe Im missing something.
All-Star caliber goalie ? It means crapola. When they needed him to stand on his head like Arthur Irbe used to do for a very bad team, he could not. Thats the real story. Yes he is very good goalie but not a championship type goalie ala Roy, Broduer etc…
The San Jose Sharks are a for-profit organization who derive a sizeable chunk of their revenues from fans. The fans are de facto investors in the organization.
BC, take a look at the economics of sports in America before you spout off garbage like “its entertainment”. The Sharks are not providing a service for free. The consumer is paying to see a product and if they do not like the product they should not pay to see said product.
Just for the record, I don’t want to come across as a “fire RW/dump Marleau” guy just because things look bad right now. My point (and I believe Mark Purdy’s point) is simply this: IF the Sharks lose tonight and in turn go on to lose the series, this will be 4 consecutive seasons that ended the exact same way. I’m sorry, but that cannot continue. IF that happens, it will be a time for a change.
Personally, I think RW is one of the most forward-thinking and intelligent coaches in the league; however, I did wonder if he has the right amount of “edge” to get this team over the hump. I didn’t necessarily want to see him go, but I wouldn’t have been heartbroken either. As for Marleau, I’ve always felt he was too nice a guy to be the Captain. I never questioned his heart or his desire (or his skill), but I did question his ability to tell his team “Ok guys, everyone line up behind me and I’ll lead us to the Promised Land.” Sorry, that’s just not his style.
I see where David’s article is more positive and guys saying “we’re going to be more accountable.” Believe me, I WANT to believe that this team is different and that they’ll come out and show that resolve on the ice. And I honestly have not given up hope on this series (and this season) yet - if the Sharks can win tonight, it becomes a best 2 of 3 with 2 games here! I like those odds! But let’s be honest guys, it’s time to put their money where their mouth is. No more lip-service, no more “it’s only one game” and “we know what we need to do”; it’s time to actually DO it. If they don’t, then some changes will need to be made.
Tell that to the people that can write it off as a business expense. Tell that to the ticket brokers who can write off tickets not sold as a loss.
I will. And they’ll agree with me: tickets to sporting events are not an investment. An essential characteristic of an investment is that the investor becomes either a creditor of or equity stakeholder in the investee. In other words, the investor is either loaning the organization money, and has an enforceable right to repayment with interest; or he is purchasing an equity stake in the organization, and has the enforceable rights of a shareholder (dividends, voting, and liquidation). By buying tickets to Sharks games, you get absolutely nothing like that: you get a limited license to a seat on designated days at designated times, and that’s all. The license is freely revocable by SVSE, and SVSE doesn’t even have to refund the purchase price of the ticket except on their terms.
The people who can write tickets off as a business expenses aren’t “investing” in the team by any rational definition of the term. They’re identifying a portion of their entertainment budget as a business expense as permitted by tax law, to get more favorable treatment by the IRS. They’re under no delusions that they have some sort of credit or equity stake in the team. Likewise, the brokers who write off unsold tickets as a loss aren’t “investors”; they’re writing off unsold inventory, again as permitted by tax law.
The San Jose Sharks are a for-profit organization who derive a sizeable chunk of their revenues from fans. The fans are de facto investors in the organization.
No, they’re not. See above. The facts that people pay money to SVSE, and a substantial portion of SVSE’s operating budget comes from that revenue, does not magically turn them into investors in SVSE, any more than people who drop money into the collection basket every Sunday are investors in their church, or somebody who buys Whoppers for lunch every day is an investor in Burger King.
BC, take a look at the economics of sports in America before you spout off garbage like “its entertainment”. The Sharks are not providing a service for free. The consumer is paying to see a product and if they do not like the product they should not pay to see said product.
I can play this game, too: WSUCanuck, take a look at property and corporate law in the United States before you spout off garbage like “it’s an investment”. The customer-merchant relationship you describe is completely different from an investor-business entity relationship.
Its good to see that you don’t disagree that years of continued failure are a reason to stop giving SVSE money.
If you want to criticize the words i used, then fine, but you’re doing a poor job of criticizing the message others seem to be reading just fine.
If you want to criticize the words i used, then fine, but you’re doing a poor job of criticizing the message others seem to be reading just fine.
I was only criticizing your word choice because you were so completely insistent that buying tickets amounted to an investment. You said it half a dozen times, and argued about it when you were challenged on the point.
What you really are is a dissatisfied customer. That’s fine. But don’t make it something it’s not. You’re getting exactly what you paid for: a seat, on certain days and times. Stop pretending the Sharks owe you more than that.
#16 - “Did any of you fire off a nasty email to versus yet?”
I did, Dick, and thanks for the link. I was fuming during the game and after. Versus got a well-deserved earful — in good taste but emphatic. Like others here with Center Ice and outside the Bay Area, Versus was my only option.
I suppose some emphasis on the Flames is expected for a broadcast intended for a Canadian audience but CBC’s play-by-play commentators were clearly and inexcusably biased towards the Flames. Like the first game, the third was called with infuriating “homerism” for which Versus must take responsibility.
Compounding the problem is, IMHO, CBC’s HNIC play-by-play (not intermission analysis) is dumbed-down, like Monday Night Football, for a general, less discerning audience. The emphasis is on hits and goals while the “nuts and bolts” are often ignored, e.g. personnel changes, line matchups and strategic adjustments made as the game progresses. TSN and Rogers Sportsnet are better in this regard. But the CBC seems to have stepped this up for the playoffs. FSNBA/Comcast coverage is better than most US regional broadcasts and Randy and Drew are excellent in fairly covering the whole game even while emphasizing the Sharks for the largely partial audience. It sucks that I rarely get to see them in the post season.
Sports fans reasonably expect some impartiality and professionalism in a broadcast. Instead, please enjoy the simplistic and slanted coverage of the CBC on Versus!
Jeff
Who are the Sharks going to blame when people stop showing up to games? Themselves? Not freakin likely.
Take a look at Chicago. Bad ownership = no fans. “New” fan-friendly owner = sell outs. Lets hope that SSE was paying attention. I’m sure that 2 more years of an underachieving product coupled with rising ticket prices (due to the actions of irresponsible Owners and GMs) will result in a drop off at the gate.
The courting of the casual fan to be part of the financial base of the team is a mistake in any and all sports. The luxury boxes and glass seats may pay more, but they’re easily out numbered by fans in the upper bowl and those watching at home.
The players and owners are a lot more reliant on the fans than fans realize.
WSU, not sure where this discussion came from or where it’s going, but set aside the Sharks for now. I don’t know answer either. What do some of the other franchises that have never won a cup do to get fans? Who are the fans? What do they say in St. Louis, Vancouver, LA, Buffalo, etc? Most of these teams have made it to the cup finals, yes. But didn’t bring the cup home. To my recollection, the Winnipeg/Phoenix franchise has never been to Finals and not sure about the Conf finals though.
Are some of these teams doomed to futility? There hasn’t been much movement of teams recently. Hartford and Winnipeg are the only recent ones, and throw in Quebec I guess. Those were truly small markets that could not sustain a team. You’re right on when you say the clubs need to recognize the hardcore fan. I think they do. Clubs will get the hardcore fan anyway, however. Don’t clubs need to make sure the voids get filled? the corporate suites and sponsors, etc. They are what brings the clubs over the top aren’t they? That’s always the spiel when a new stadium is needed. And doesn’t a business, in this case, hockey, need the casual fan, the young fan, etc?
Like I said, no answers, only questions — things to ponder. Maybe a good question….what is ownerships desires? (making money — is constant so thats no answer). What is ownerships worst fears? What will need to happen for them to have to sell? There are probably other questions too.
GP
As a Sharks fan (since ‘91 baby!) living in Toronto, i’ve seen everything over the years from Superchannel Bay Area to TSN to Versus, and have been watching CBC HNIC practically since i was born in 1970. Randy & Drew do a great job- as good as any local broadcast in the NHL. But it’s always better to watch the Sharks on TSN. (Which means NOT playing a Cdn team of in the Playoffs of course.) They have the most well-balanced, professional and deepest sets of crews from no. 1-3.
Regarding ticket & beer prices- i’d take Sharks season tix in a heartbeat over our Maple Leafs’ of course. Not only do we have the most expensive ticket prices in the NHL, we also have the lowest customer satisfaction rating. (As compared to say, Buffalo who have cheap everything and a good team. Well, they were good.) We’ve got thousands on the 3-year waiting list for season seats up in the rafters at the ACC!
You guys are lucky to live in the Bay Area and lucky to have such a great team & organization. I watch & follow the Sharks all year from up here (when WAS the last time they visited T.O.?) and gain a different perspective. If San Jose and Toronto traded NHL teams & front offices (& prices!), you guys would have worse attendance than Nashville.
Don’t take The Boys, RW, DW, or the ownership for granted. You could always have the Leafs.
Not sure I follow the investor vs. not investor debate, but I definitely resent that the sharks cater to the “rich casual fan” rather than the “poor true fan.” As someone who bought a SharkPak within days (possibly even the first day) they became available, and have continuously maintained either a SharkPak or a full-season ticket for the entire life of the Sharks organization, I feel like I should be a more important fan in the eyes of the Sharks owners than some stupid rich box owners who jumped on the bandwagon last year and don’t even show up for half the games. But because that box owner has given the Sharks more money in two years then I have in 15, I’m apparently chopped liver. At least that’s how the Sharks make me feel.
Don’t post here unless you’re a Sharks fan. Open dialogue is overrated.