Don’t ask coach if next game is extra important
A pretty routine practice today. Everybody healthy skating except Jeremy Roenick, who gets the occasional day off as the locker room elder at 38.
But the routine days can produce some of the more interesting moments over the course of a season.
Like today. Several of us were in Coach Ron Wilson’s office and I brought up what I knew was a risky subject: the importance of getting a victory Thursday in the final game before the All-Star break.
Now I knew it was risky because Wilson has said often enough for it to sink in that from his perspective, every game has the same value: two points. None are more important than any other. End of discussion. Now, it’s easy enough to point out that some games do have a four-point swing in the standings hanging on the outcome (games against Anaheim as opposed to those against Buffalo), but, no, I understand Wilson’s point and I respect it. Really.
But that doesn’t mean I still won’t ask every once in a while about the importance of a certain game, trying to vary the question just a little bit and hoping to elicit a different response. My job, in part, is to write stories that distinguish one game from another, so the season — and what I write — doesn’t become just one big blur.
So I asked a familiar question. And I guess it was one time too many. Wilson went on at length about how the media (and the public) put too much emphasis on one game or stretch of games. I’m going to let him take over the floor now in a slightly edited (it got a little scatalogical at one point) transcript of what he had to say. In part because I think there’s some validity to it, in part because it might tone down some of the extreme positions staked out in chat rooms and blogs everywhere each time a team wins or loses. Anyway, here’s Ron Wilson’s take:
“What’s going to happen if you don’t win that game? Now we’re the underachieving team again. Last week we were rated #1 team in hockey . . . It’s all a bunch of …
“Geeze, you win a few games, you lose a few games — it’s part of life in sports. It’s where you
are at the end of the year. They don’t hand out awards for where we are today, tomorrow —
it’s only at the end of the year and what you do in the playoffs.
“We lost a few games, it’s not the end of the world. When we win a few games, it doesn’t mean we’re going to win the Stanley Cup, or we should start putting down the parade route.
“That’s the only question you haven’t asked me: Where’s the parade route going to be after
we’ve won four in a row? Seriously.
“I try to avoid reacting . . . You’ve got to keep an even keel. I’ve done this for 15 years.
“You just shake your head. It’s not the end of the world. Our whole society reacts and
overreacts to everything we do. Like Dallas, what are they doing today?? They lost to
Columbus. Oh my God. Two days ago, they’re going to win the division. It doesn’t happen
that way. It’s a nice, slow steady pace. You try to get better. Simple as that.
“I get frustrated having to explain that all the time.”
Just win them all and you won’t have to answer the question again Ron….
In discussion as to whether Sharks are underachieving, especially against the better teams like the Ducks, consider that the last two times we played the Ducks it was the 2nd game (for us) of a back to back (happens again in April). We played them very well last time in spite of that, and lost on the fluke goal. The Ducks are not as good as last year, because frankly, the refs are watching them much closer after allowing them great leeway on penalties and holding, and interference (especially when teams dump the puck in against them) last year (they won the cup being the most penalized team, and developed an awesome penalty kill- clearly a brilliant coaching strategy that worked for them). What I have noticed about the Sharks in the last 6 or so games is that, due to the skill of the Sharks in cycling (size, etc) and the deadly Thornton line, they have decided to fore check the heck out of us, especially when Thornton is on the ice, in attempt to tire out the line so they won’t be effective or have time on offense. Sometimes teams are sending 3 men in on fore check. We have not adapted well to that (yet) and made them pay via odd man rushes the other way. We need better outlet pass (and much quicker) tactics and better back checking by forwards. We also need Cheech (and Clowe when he returns) to start scoring so we have more lines that can score). For Marleau, I just hope for a trade at this point to get some value. He is making at least one critical mistake a night…trying too hard I guess. Just doesn’t have ice vision and has lost his puck handling ability in the last two seasons (not that he was GREAT earlier in his career, but was much above average). Needless to say, his shot now is not nearly as deadly or hard, for some reason, perhaps a long term injury that is not spoken about).
I have to say…I agree with RW. While I’d love to see the Sharks play like a dominant behemoth of a team every game, it’s not going to happen. If you run a business, you know that no matter how good a business it is, you’re going to win business and you’re going to lose business. You can’t get too excited about either event really. The question is at the end of the year, what’s the bottom line look like? Ultimately that’s how a business and a sports team is judged.
Yes, all games are worth 2 points, but no, all games don’t have the same importance. The games the Sharks play against their division foes are of greater importance than those they play against other Western Conference rivals or the Eastern Conference teams. I guess our team doesn’t get that because their coach doesn’t. One more win in regulation versus the Ducks last season and the Sharks would have ended up with the #2 seed and an easier path in the playoffs…and perhaps the Cup would be currently residing in Northern California.
I don’t know, the Shark’s didn’t seem to mind too much the year we scraped by and were ‘forced’ to play Detroit in the first round…
Yes an in-division game has a four point spread, but as long as we garner enough points to make it into the playoffs I’m happy. As probably every hockey player ever interviewed has said at one point or another - the playoffs are a whole new season, and nothing that came before matters.
“ya win a few, ya lose a few. The paycheck’s the same either way.”
RW
I imagine BC and Goaliepuke will feel vindicated by this thread (no offense intended)… more power to you boys…
RW, I am sorry I have to break this type of news to you…. The questioning and scrutiny come with the job.
You are lucky that you do not have to stand in front of reporters and or TV after each game explaining what happened, as it is done by other hockey clubs and in other sports.
BTW Patrick, normally the captain sits in the same press conference with the coach, and has to face the music as well…
So Ronnie, if you do not like this part of your job, then there are many other jobs out there that do not have this type of requirement. Please consult Craig’s list….
Ol’ RW has a way with words. Yes indeedee…
I see some of his points. I have chirped here from time to time asking folks to calm down about various issues.
But it insults our intelligence to say what he said. We all know that some games ARE more important, as you pointed out David, but under special circumstances, for more than just their effect on the standings.
Losing to Chicago yesterday would have considerably changed the tone and content of the fan’s comments today and I would wager that the players that really care would be in a darker mood as well. Frustration levels would be higher.
Who does RW think he’s fooling? Probably no one, and that bothers me.
Perhaps the reason his team seems to have a hard time being able to change emotional gears is because this philosophy of keeping an even keel dominates the player’s thoughts a little too much.
My Dad used to say something about “knowing when to turn the horses loose”….
bs RW. a game vs Det, Dal, Ana are much more important than a game vs Chi.
you establish confidence that you can beat an opponent in the playoffs by doing that when you play them and vice versa, you LOSE confidence when you BLOW a game like the ana game, that affected them for 3 more.
if the streaks are so unimportant, then why the eff did DW have a 2 hour meeting with the players?
it is exactly that kind of stupid attitude that had him use a rookie G in Ana instead of vs toronto the previous night.
more fodder to call for the dismissal of the wax figure behind the Sharks bench
So what RW is saying is
Get enough points to be in the playoffs and then we will find a switch or some magic powder somewhere that will enable the Sharks to beat all those teams that we could not beat during the regular season.
Sounds like a great plan, why did we not see it before I am not sure… Its absolutely brilliant…
# of Ron Wilson Stanley Cup victories in 15 years: 0.
# of fan families who pay $250 and enjoy watching a “nice, slow, steady game”: 0.
# of fan families paying $250 to enjoy an under-performing squad lose at home: 0.
RW’s attitude is a relic of a dinosaur era that symbolizes the NHL’s gradual slide into pro-sports oblivion south of the border.
And now Detroit is proving that even consistent superior hockey night after night in “Hockeytown USA” isn’t a guaranteed seat-filler.
New concept for NHL economists to investigate: “salary cap contraction in a hostile market”.
some teams are even charging more money for certain opponents. hey RW, does that make them all the same too?
not to the owners it doesn’t
Uh, Stevo,
Just what was your point about the Chicago game?
Yeah, that was a lame post. I didn’t get it right. Sorry.
What I wanted to say was that I’m confident that if we had been going into yesterday’s game with Chicago having won against Dallas, Anaheim, and Detroit and then LOST to the Blackhawks the folks here would have been complaining as usual etc…
Imagine the reaction today if we had actually lost yesterday and extended the losing streak to 5. There’s no way the reaction would be the same. We’d be having to talk people back from the window ledges all over Sharkdom. I can’t imagine that players would not have been effected to some degree as well.
To go one step further, imagine the reaction if we’d lost to Chicago and then St.Louis tomorrow.
SO, a game is not a game, is not a game.. depending on various circumstances. And I do understand and share RW’s perspective of keeping an even keel in that regard.
I hope I have it correct now before I hit that stupid Submit button……….gawd. It IS bedtime for bonzo.
translation…
“you fair-weather, what-have-you-done-for-me-lately, whine about every little detail, band-waggoning fans need to chill because i’ve been in the business for more than 15 years while you armchair-gm wannabees probably don’t even know how to ice-skate…”
Jeez, Dave, you are taking too many cues from the Toronto Press…way to spin up RW…and off topic but speaking of Toronto, I wonder if J Ferguson Jr. is going to wind up as a Sharks scout…?
Now, if Patty can stop trying to split the defenders and cough up the puck…albeit he did lay out one of the Hawks with an outstanding bodycheck…
#7, I can’t say vindicated is the right word. Maybe some relief. Relief that somebody said something about this concept besides me. Someone that actually has a position within the hockey world. I only play for fun and excercise, and its the best sport on earth.
I think some of this is important too because it kinda backups the players. Everybody knows that we’re not going to win every game and Every player is going to make mistakes. One game or stretch doesn’t guarantee success or failure at the end of the season. The players have enough to do without having to worry about making a mistake that might cost a game. That’s where hockey really happens.
I actually think certain games can be important. Not because you might be play Detroit or the Stars or Ducks. But for other evaluation reasons. Last night vs Chicago — perfect example. An eval game because you have to beat the Hawks. Plain and simple. Didn’t matter they made lots of mistakes. It was the intensity they started and finished with. I’m sure many won’t agree with me on that, but that’s what I saw. I also a lot of mistakes. Some guys do need to buy dinner.
RW: “You try to get better. Simple as that.”
I think our frustration is in NOT seeing the Sharks get better. They’re still very inconsistent. Heck, even RW said that some of his guys can’t play in their own end or in the middle of the ice. Isn’t it the COACHING staff’s job to teach them how?
And (#2 Tom), I’m tired of people saying the ANA game was lost on a “fluke” goal. It was no fluke. The Sharks didn’t clear the zone, Semenov was staring at nothing, and Doug Weight knew exactly where he was shooting. Read his post-game comments.
Call it like it is, like #10 Overbyte: the Sharks blew the game.
#19, the coaching staff can only preach for so long. the players are [supposed to be] grown-up professional athletes. if they need the coaching staff to always hold their hands (and they’ve known how wilson and company operates for years now), then no coach is going to motivate this bunch who can’t even motivate themselves. yeah, it’s the coaching staff to teach them, but the players have to keep up their end of the bargain by doing THEIR job as players.
David: “…because it might tone down some of the extreme positions staked out in chat rooms and blogs everywhere each time a team wins or loses.”
Hey, you _are_ new at this whole blogging thing, aren’t you…
Dave #16: ditto
There is a subset of Sharks fans that are the biggest whiners in the world.
Stuart #19,
I agree with the frustration of not getting better. I’m not sure that the blame lies mainly with the coaches.
I’m of the mind that the players play the game and they have the majority of the responsibility. That’s not to say the coaches have none, but the coaches can only do so much.
Furthermore the players know the RW system by now and therefore it’s logical that they don’t come to the rink and get blindsided by an entirely new scheme for that day’s game. I guess that could happen, but I don’t find it likely.
GP, I liked your addition to why some games are indeed more important than others.
On that thought, St.Louis is looking at this game as huge tonight, given that they are in a very similar situation to what we were before the Chicago game. If you read what the Predators did to them, then they lose in a SO last night.
So GP, shouldn’t this be a good “eval” game for the Sharks as STL is tougher to beat than CHI? (IMHO)
We worry so much about opponents during the regular season that we forget one little fact, it means nothing in the race for the cup. Last year we drilled Detroit in the regular season, but in the playoffs, nope. The first Shark win in Detroit ever came in the playoffs when we beat them in 7 games as the #8 seed. St Louis won the Presidents trophy about ten years ago, and handled the Sharks easily during the season, but SJ in 7 games again during the cup playoffs as the #8 seed.
I don’t like our record against Anahiem any more then any self-respecting Shark fan, but that pales in comparison to not making the playoffs. That is why players need to get losses out of thier heads as soon as possible to remain on an even keel to stay out of three game losing streaks.
We as fans and arm chair GM’s get to have all the fun and treat each game as the end all of the sporting world. We have the luxury of stewing in the reek of a poorly played game that saw the home team drop two points. RW is right on in that regard.
I know I’m going to catch hell for this, but I totally agree with Ron Wilson. During the regular season and especially the playoffs, a team has to keep an even keel. Not get too excited for a win and not to depressed over a loss. They have to look ahead to the next game, the next period, and the next shift. It’s a long road to the Stanley Cup.
Hey Dick, yesterday you and I couldn’t agree less on a subject, but today we said the same thing at the same time, funny world eh!
IMHO, the Sharks have been hyped this season to win it all. It ain’t going to happen. DW thinks he can build a contender team through draft and farm system but experience does matter and that comes only through free agency. Craig Rivet is an underachieving defenseman. Everytime I watch him at the blueline during powerplay he can’t control the puck and it slips out of the offensive zone. He was a freeagent signed by DW. I wonder where would sharks be in the standings if they didn’t have Jumbo Joe. I honestly feel like the coaches aren’t demanding enough from the under-performing players. Send cheecho to minors for a few weeks. The only sharks I see hustling on the ice with passion to win: Tory Mitchell, Mike Grier, Milan, Joe. Others always watch the puck being cycled by the opponents. They can’t clear the puck out of the defensive zone. I have quit watching the sharks and watch other teams on my NHL CenterIce subscription.
No doubt you quit watching the Sharks, because if you were watching, you would see Cheech playing as hard as anyone. And he has to clear waivers to go to the minors, and about 29 teams would pick him up first based on his 56 goal season.
Pollak:
Thanks for asking the questions for us. Hockey is tough to cover because the unwritten code disfavors anyone providing an interesting answer to a question, with the refreshing exception of J.R. If the coach doesn’t sqwak at a question by the main reporter covering the team every once in awhile, you’re not asking the right questions.
It is very simple win hockey games. Stay healthy. Start streaking right before the playoffs, then you will not have to worry about important games. Playoffs is a whole new game. Look at detroit every year just about they are at the top and then hit rock bottom in the playoffs. One game at a time is the only mentality you should ever have. Besides division games were there is a swing 2 points is 2 points no matter how it is added up.
Rivet is underachieving?
This year he has 5+17=22 pts in 46 games.
Last year he had 7+17=24 pts in 71 games.
The previous years were 34, 12, 22, 25.
He’s on track for a career year!
I feel like RW can’t win no matter what he says. Everyone will twist his words and take them out of context to prove there own points. It’s like people of this message board and RW are Obama and Clinton. We all want to get to the same place but we must destroy eachother in the process.
Read again what he says
“Geeze, you win a few games, you lose a few games — it’s part of life in sports. It’s where you
are at the end of the year. They don’t hand out awards for where we are today, tomorrow —
it’s only at the end of the year and what you do in the playoffs.
“We lost a few games, it’s not the end of the world. When we win a few games, it doesn’t mean we’re going to win the Stanley Cup, or we should start putting down the parade route.
Like it or not but it’s the truth. He’s not saying that they’ll flip a swith in the playoffs and suddenly be good. He’s not saying that he likes the posistion they are at. All he is saying is that you don’t win a cup in January. He’s trying not to be too up or too down. Last year in the playoffs EVERYONE was mad at RW for getting on Marleau. Now EVERYONE is mad because he doesnt sit him, strip the “C”, drop him to the 4th line, trade him etc….. kinda ironic!
As of 1/23/08, ESPN is ranking the Sharks #2 behind the Red Wings (http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/powerranking), down from #1 last week.
So, they’re apparently saying that a 4 game losing streak is no big deal. Anyone have any idea how they do the ranking? Is is subjective or do they have some mathematical formula that they use?
sacramentoben:
well said.
fishfan:
what, you feel the sharks got away with murder or something and they should be “punished” with a lower ranking to teach them a lesson?
joking aside, a 4 game losing streak isn’t that big of a deal… be glad it wasn’t a 10 game losing streak…
muthpucka:
“punished” isn’t the word i would use. i’d call it “reality”. a team is not worth #1 or #2 ranking if it can’t beat detroit, anaheim and dallas. also, how can the team be a #1 or #2 rank when it’s play is so dismal at home.
that said, there’s no question that the sharks are #1 if they could just play all their games away from the tank. maybe that’s what the boys are doing…setting themselves up for “away ice advantage” throughout the playoffs.
why bother with anything said by ESPN. they have almost NO ONE there who knows or cares anything about hockey.
TSN is the site to look at for hockey, not ESPN
anyone who would give the Sharks a #1 rating is smoking something. they have NEVER been close to the Red wings level this year. and I’m a sharks fan
Stevo, the eval concept is still on for tonight for sure. It has to be more so to stay on or improve their game. We know the Blues will be desperate. It wont be disaster if we lose or get a point If they play with intensity and mitigate the mistakes made vs Chicago, then we could be happy with an honost effort. One begets the other eh? However, a win with mistakes and the Blues tanking it — harder to judge. We’ll take it, but we need to see this back to the road team we saw win 10 in a row — solid and consistant and hard o the puck,etc.
Gf (#37) wrote:
“why bother with anything said by ESPN. they have almost NO ONE there who knows or cares anything about hockey.”
I can’t agree with this more. ESPN only has any kind of NHL analysis on Sportscenter twice a week. Sheesh. TSN.ca is the place to go.
SacramentoBen(32), you said it perfectly.
To the trade Cheechoo crowd……take that.
And to the gloom and doomers….check the standings, and
take THAT!
Nice to see Cheechoo and Marleau looking like real hockey players tonight. It’s been a long time coming. Jumbo Joe was his usual special self.
It would have been fun to see Ron Wilson and Andy Murray duke it out at the end.
Marleau threw a big hit for the second game in a row. Cheechoo scored 2 goals. The power play moved the puck around. Ozo stood up for his goalie.
Who IS this team?!?
A strong performance by Nabby, I’d honestly like to see some more “realists” come out of the woodwork and accuse of him of being a “C+ goalie”, or anything else more creative. To all the disgruntled “fans” out there that blamed Nabby for the Sharks’ defensive woes, his saves tonight speak louder than any of your posts.
Like Stevo succintly said, to the trade Cheechoo group, take that.
That was a real hockey team that played the blues.
Ask Wilson if he’s every got a fighting major…
Then ask if he ever got a fighter major as a coach.
GOOD FIRE IN RON WILSON’S EYES AS HE CHEWS OUT ANDY MURRAY.
Anybody else see Marleau jump into that scrum right along with Ozo, when Hinote slashed Nabby?
‘Cause he’s soft, our Patrick. Not captain material. Shows no leadership.
That is the game I think all of us were waiting for. The Sharks need to scrap and use their size and speed. You could really see the work last night. Marleau - I have been saying he was soft. He has been. However, last night he played as big as ever. Now it is just one game. I hope to see much more of this. Also, I wonder what the Blues would think if Rivet took his gloves off and popped McDonald or Kariya to end the game. Classless move by Tkachuk.
Sharks fans need to chill. You have a great team, but all this micro-analysis will make you crazy. RW is a fine coach (although he could use a little more offensive/defensive imagination - playing behind the net rarely produces goals). Still, so much navel gazing produces the results you see in Toronto. The core players (yes, including Marleau) are spectacular. Do they make mistakes and have bad games. Yep. So do the Red Wings - maybe not as many, but these things have a way of evening out - remember how unstoppable Calgary was a couple of years ago? Game analysis from two stories up is easy, but generally useless. As for trades, the players (and there may be a couple at most,) that would go would get you the same or less in return. Even the guys that could be traded are talented, they just need a little fine-tuning. RW, TH and RZ’s responsibility? Absolutely. They are on the case. The team is good and will be in the second season - that’s really all you can ask. It would be nice to have the first seed, but in today’s hockey with the level of talent on all teams, it means very little. The Sharks will start winning at home because of the law of averages - and all this self pitying will be for naught. Enjoy. Hockey Rules. Toronto does (unfortunately) still suck… even with Tosky… Sigh.
Well said D&JD. I live in Colorado, been here for 10 years and still LOVE MY SHARKS!!!! I keep up on the Sharks via Merc, blogs, Direct TV hockey package etc. I get a kick out of all you’s who are saying..fire RW, get rid of Marleu, get rid of Cheech, blah, blah blah…those same types of post are on the Colorado Avalanche blogs too. But, you know why? Because the team out here TRULY SUCKS!!! The coaches (Quenville\Granato), BOTH goalies (6million dollar man - Theodore or “Thehorror”, and Budaj the backup, and pretty much the rest of the team. So, I guess what I’m trying to get to is that the Sharks are a great team! No, they’re not playing up to their potential, but neither are a bunch of other teams this year.
Anyway, chill guys, chill! Keep your blood pressure down, be positive, think positive, enjoy our beloved Sharks and just remember…you could be an Av’s fan!!!!
I neglected to add last to my posts after the game, my message for the “fire DW” crowd:
Look at our position in the standings and then our payroll (South than 38M)
Now, look at where Anaheim is and look at their payroll
(North of 50M)
[If my sources are correct]…you all can take THAT too.
Nice reward for Cheech and his work ethic since he came back healthy from the injured list. Two goals 4 feet away from the net, gotta love it. I’m thinking his minor injury that landed him on the IR a few months ago probably helped his hernia heal even more allowing him to stand tall in the crease and on the boards. Those are the traits we fell in love with when he first became an SJ Shark.
The CAP’n came to play and what a wonderfull game he played last night. Mitchell was a force getting under the skin of several players and drawing penalties. For you stat people he didn’t score so it must not have been a good game. It takes more then scoring to win in hockey. Just ask Cheech.
The best cure of a 4 game losing streak is a 4 game winning streak, so enjoy the all star break and then take it to Alberta and win back to back road games. Not an easy task, but one last nights team can handle.
Take out the first period and it was the best 40 minutes of Hockey we have played all year albeit against a very tired team. That east coast trip is going to be a killer. I thought Marleau played his best game of the year. Now can they bring that every game after the break?
Steveo: (and I say this as food for thought, not as an attack)
First, don’t mention Anaheim’s payroll. Last I looked they were the Stanley Cup champs. Are Sharks fans A’s fans too? Do you all take pride in having a low payroll team that (eventually) clicks in the regular season? But gets smoked in the playoffs?
Also, how can anybody be happy about last nights game. I mean, it’s great they won which obviously is better than losing. But once again they beat a team that was ragged from the night before. It’s a game they should have won.
John: Maybe I’m missing something. Our best 40 minutes? Again they couldn’t play 60? And, again, against a tired team?
Really, none of what any of us talks about here matters until they prove themselves in the playoffs.
And this isn’t even about micro analysis. I really don’t have a problem with the team. My fav, Cheechoo is heating up for sure, the goalie is playing well, the team is good and I’m thinking Doug Wilson will pick up someone the way he always does at the trade deadline. I’m thinking Marleau will break out of this funk, although if you heard Rus and Baker talking about him last night you get the impression that the whole organization is at a complete loss as to whats going on with him. As much as I’ve bagged on him this year, I admit he has been very good for the Sharks in the past, (still boring) but good…the last few years anyway…and I’m hoping there isn’t anything going on that is affecting his game. Just hoping it’s some weird mental glitch.
So that being said, I simply can’t get excited about anything that is happening until they knock out top tier teams consistently. Not all the time, but more often than not.
Beating the Blues is like beating Chicago the other night…empty except for the easy two points.
…? for DP…anything about Cheech, noticed in 3 star skate after game he was is obvious pain and limping down the “chute”…he did take a (possible puck) hit during SHPP when he was without his stick…
Beating the Blues is like beating Chicago the other night…empty except for the easy two points.
Wow. There are no words.
Yay Sharkies!!! Cheech with 2 goals and scrapping the whole game, Marleau with a sweet assist and another big hit, solid play from the net! Now let’s bring the A-game to Anaheim and Detroit!!!!!
WHy was Vlasic sent to the minors today. Seto, Plihal and Greiss I understand, but Vlasic needs rest also, unless a trade for Kaberle is in the works.
Obviously there are no words. You didn’t write any. Say something or don’t say anything. “Wow. There are no words” doesn’t mean anything to me.
But seriously, they haven’t yet beat a top team. What does that tell you? They beat Dallas a couple of times, but not lately.
Plus, they barely beat the Leafs, who had played the night before.
They’re padding their stats with mid-level teams. Until they can show that they can beat Anaheim and Detroit then who cares about the rest.
I don’t know about the rest of you but after 16 years or whatever I’d like to see a Cup. If you aren’t the same then I guess thats what Bay Area fans are.
Giants: no ring.
Warriors: no ring.
Cal
Stanford
Earthquakes (times 3): rings and moved
Seals: joke and gone
San Jose State: joke
The list goes on.
Yay! San Jose has the Sabre Cats and San Jose Giants.
The A’s used to be great, but now everyone gets excited about a team that does well for 3 months and then flames.
The 49ers were great, but now?: joke. But at least Niner fans have something they can point to. Some great memories.
Same with the A’s which makes their lot all the more tragic.
Anaheim: Cup
Tampa By: Cup
Florida: Cup appearance
Ottawa: Cup appearance
Sharks: flamed 3 years in a row.
I don’t know about you, but I’d like to see something more than a playoff appearance. Anything less than complete success is complete failure. And if you don’t agree with that than you are a very good Bay Area fan who deserves a pat on the head and a lollipop.
I should have lamented about Marleau and Cheech on this forum sooner. It was an excellent performance last night against the Blues. if these two guys play like they did 50% of the rest of the season, sharks will do really well.
Phil #54,
Good points, well thought out. Pretty much how I feel with a couple exceptions:
1. Re your point that the Ducks won the Cup… I was speaking to this year. Sharks management is doing pretty good in the standings, keeping up with Anaheim while spending significantly less. Of course there are many variables (Ducks under-achieving for the money being one).
2. Beating the Blues was easy…none of us will argue with Mr. Pollak’s view that they were tired…they were. But given our monumental struggles at home, and the fact that St.Louis was desperate for a win, it could have gone the other way if the Blues threw 3 in the net in the first and crushed what little momentum we had. I’m not saying that was likely or not, but it was possible. After all, if I’m the Blues, my best shot at a win is to get ahead early and hold on as we get more tired towards the third period…just a matter of opinion.
Other than that, I can’t really disagree with you. Well except the matter of Billy Beane’s new paradigm in pro sports management..it does work better in my view because it is more sustainable. Does Steinbrenner’s work any better? Both have been close to the same results lately, but far from close in money spent.
Dynasties are dinosaurs in these days of parity. Any given Sunday? Only excellent management and coaching philosophies will have a shot at any sort of long-lived run at the very top.
The Patriots not only draft and trade well, the big key is getting players that are perfectly clear on how the cookie crumbles there…no player is above the team. Randy Moss acts like a model citizen suddenly because of that understanding.
When the Sharks are rostered head to toe with players who understand “no primadonnas allowed” and “everything for the Cup”, we too, have a shot at what we pretty much have had for 3 years, an honest shot at the Cup. And in my view, we have that this year too….although I’m not as confident as last year, that’s for sure.
Good effort by everybody last night, including the coach taking exception to Murray’s move in the last few seconds of the game.
I am with Phil on this one, last night’s game was great to watch and encouraging to see people who have been struggling to show us what they can do.
On the other hand let’s not delude ourselves…the Sharks played against a team that had little sleep, had a 4 hour flight after a dissappointing loss and they are carrying a 7 game (or so) losing streak.
Yes I know that the Sharks have also struggled against teams that faced similar circumstances to the Blues, so it is great to see that the Sharks managed to take it to them last night.
In the spirit of even keeling….well done boys, excellent effort, keep it up, take this experience to the games after the break; please show us that you can generate this kind of excellent effort on a consistent basis.
Phil, I also agree that it is about bleeding time for the Bay Area to get some success from our sports franchises.
Say something or don’t say anything.
You want me to say something? Okay. Here:
There are no “easy” wins in professional sports. At this level of competition, anybody can beat anybody on any given day. The Sharks just beat two much-improved Central Division teams that are both, despite recent struggles, in the hunt for playoff berths. St. Louis was playing some of the best, most desperate hockey that they’ve played all season, and the Sharks still manhandled them with a convincing 60-minute effort and the “big guns” asserting themselves both on and off the scoresheet. The end result was a victory that pulled them even with Dallas for the Pacific Division lead, with four games in hand.
Despite this, all you can do is b!tch and moan about how they can’t defeat top-tier teams (meaning “Detroit and Anaheim”, because they’ve owned Vancouver and Minnesota and are .500 against Dallas and Calgary) consistently.
Here. Get the sand out.
Steveo:
Pretty good post.
1. I agree the Sharks are overall, doing well, and it’s a luxury for us to complain about anything. The complaints do, for my part, come from a good place. Just know that Santa Clara County, I’m almost positive, is now richer than the OC. San Jose has one REAL professional team. The cap shouldn’t be too much of a problem. Obviously I’m no cap expert. I ignore most articles about money sports, but I think the Sharks could have and should have spent more. I’m thinking there is a grand plan there, so I’ll go along (begrudingly) for now.
Don’t get me wrong, either. Steinbrenner finally won a bunch of world series spending all that money, but only after doing it smart. They mixed free agents with vets and home grown players. Nobody in the NHL will win without a good mix. Lets hope the Sharks ultimately have the right mix this year, but I think they will need to add one more person, maybe two. A good, vet D-man? And I’ll throw this out there…wait for it…a Darcy Tucker type. Barnaby…someone who can give as good as they get. Someone who gets under the opposing teams skin. A total A-hole who maybe chips in a goal occasionally.
2. It could have gone that way the other night, for sure. Anything can happen in hockey. I suppose I shouldn’t be too down on wins like that our team has been victimized that way too many times over the years (can we tar and feather the scheduler already…and no more circus events at the tank…or anything other than ice events during the regular season).
3. Don’t talk to me about Billy Beane. Moneyball is an abomination. I’m going to admit something on here that will get me a lot of flame time, but I’m a Dodger fan who grew up in San Jose (’88 was great…see they suck but at least I have the memories). They hired Depodesta and soon after dismantled a playoff team. I realize the A’s are in a bad spot in Oakland, but I hope when they get out of that Moneyball books everywhere will be trashed.
Oh, and if anyone doubts how much of a fan I am just know that the first thing I did when I found out I was going to be a new dad this year was go to the Sharks online store to find a Sharks onesie. Now I’m kind of angling for that Sharks beanie cap I’m seeing.
Wow, so attacking BC. I’m without words.
And it’s not bitching and moaning…it’s talking about the team we like and the expectations we have for them. If I think they should be better (because I believe they can be better) then I’m probably not too far off from what the actual players are thinking. That they can be better.
And after all these years of loyalty and passion from the fans, don’t we deserve the best? Look at Detroit. They’re demolishing everyone and still can’t fill the rink (probably more a result of local Michigan/Detroit economics, but still).
San Jose is a nice, sleepy, non-controversial town. Lets hope the Sharks don’t reflect that.
Phil #64,
Well said again.
I WAS going to (but I was long-winded enough in that last post) to use ‘88 World Series in an example of how the Sharks are not the only team in pro sports to waltz in the Championship ring and get KO’d by one good punch.
Won’t you agree that the Steinbrenner teams won a long time ago? I think that the current paradigm of using younger, cheaper players is here to stay and it has worked (and as you accurately pointed out - including veterans as well). Exhibit A. the A’s taking the Yankees to the wall in back to back playoff years.
No one expected the A’s to go all the way either on any of their playoff runs, but the Yankees sure were. Money is not everything, but actually secondary these days. A good player with a great (and ironically -old fashioned attitude) works pretty good.
How did Stanford beat USC?? Heart my friend. Desire. No one in the “room” being a cancer.
Stevo:
I hate USC, so I won’t argue at all with the Stanford reminder (although USC still went on to crush in the Rose Bowl…ick). But that’s one of the things the Sharks are questioning now…Do they have the heart to go all the way. I’m hoping they are like Detroit in the early 90’s. Remember everyone picked them to go all the way and they didn’t until Scotty Bowman came along (does RW need to go? That’s what we’re all wondering).
Yeah and sorry also for the long winded posts, but just imagine these posts are happening over beer! Which makes me wonder…should there be a Sharks poster beer night somewhere before a game…or better yet…after…haha.
I’m thinking though baseball is a bad analogy for the Sharks as only teams who spend like drunken sailors end up on top (Diamondbacks, Yanks, Boston this year and I think the list goes on). It’s sad really and snuffs the fun out of the game sometimes.
But I totally agree with heart. If the Sharks can muster it in the playoffs, then this spring should be exciting.
Phil,
I forgot to address DePodesta…..He’s obviously no Billy Beane… but apparently another student, Theo Epstein is.
Just because the teacher is good, sometimes the student isn’t I guess.
On the other hand, Boston spent a lot of money, so maybe not the best example either!
DePodesta was aweful. He actually admitted he doesn’t watch the games or listen to them. The GM.
Anyway, I digress from baseball talk during hockey season.
Well, actually the Moneyball thing came about from Shark talk….sports management. So don’t be too hard on yourself bud.
Phil, it wasn’t meaningless or empty, we had been struggling at home, and suddenly , we find the passion that has been missing pretty much all season in our own arena.,This was a great spark for fans at home, and nice to see our boys on fire.This half , as Cheechoo ands Marleau start scoring, it will open the whole team to more impassioned play while vigorously standing up for their own teammates.
Sharkfriend: Let’s hope you’re right and they can sustain the momentum. Sometimes it’s good for a team to beat up on a lesser or weakened team and go forward from there.
Cheechoo is great though. Dude is starting to smoke.
Phil,
I second the Cheec emotion. It goes without saying, that staying healthy is vital, so I’ll cross my fingers. I’m still worried about Nabby not having a proven backup, but Goaliepuke doesn’t seem to be as concerned, and I seem to trust his judgment.
Obviously I hope we win it all. That’s the biggest, but not the only, focus of the season for me every year.
I’ve sure enjoyed having some time this week to jump into this forum too. Today is my last day of it though, because of career stuff. Too bad (for me anyway!).
Spring Training is a month away!……..which means painting the house, and working on the yard, and…..screw it!
Go Sharks
what is laughable is the hypocrite phonies who tell the negative realists that they should not be jumping to conclusions after just a few losses blah blah.
BUT, after a win or two vs low level, below avg teams these same phony hypocrites get all excited and go nuts about so and so is back , so and so is great, etc
SO, the same guys who preach that RW and his “even keel” approach is the right one–well , those same phonies on this board show no even keel at all, they start making pronouncements that all is wonderful, marleau is now a god again, RW is the smartest thing in the world. blah blah
guess what, phonies. they STILL have not proven ANYTHING vs the top 3 teams in the west lately.
and THAT is the RUB.
beating the little sisters of the poor means NOTHING as far as the playoffs are concerned
and UNTIL they show something vs a REAL team, I will take the RW even keel approach, and say that NOTHING has changed.
David,
What’s up with sending Vlasic to Worcester? I can understand sending the other players, but Vlasic plays a lot of minutes for the Sharks. He certainly doesn’t need extra work on top of two extra cross country flights.
#77
frankly, i don’t give a flying-f about who beats who in the regular season since all i care about is who beats who in the playoffs.
i don’t buy the “can’t beat a real team” argument. the sharks did well against detroit the last [regular] season and how did it pan out in the playoffs? the season before last, edmonton barely made the playoffs and how did that work out for the sharks?
you can’t measure this team on how it’s doing in the regular season because if the sharks beat them in the PLAYOFFS, who cares how they’ve been doing against them right now.
they were beating the wings in the playoff series, too, until nabokov choked, and handed away a free open net goal to turn the series around.
that was last year. this year the sharks have proven nothing vs anybody important
what is laughable is the hypocrite phonies who tell the negative realists that they should not be jumping to conclusions after just a few losses blah blah.
BUT, after a win or two vs low level, below avg teams these same phony hypocrites get all excited and go nuts about so and so is back , so and so is great, etc
What the hell are you talking about? Nobody’s planning a freaking Stanley Cup parade. It’s just worth pointing out that you so-called “negative realists” — more like “whiny jackasses” — can’t stop b!tching even when the team plays well. You complain when they’re not winning, and then you complain when they are winning. You say “nothing has changed” because they haven’t “shown you something” against a “REAL team”, when the reality is that against the other teams who make up the top eight in the Western Conference as of today, they’ve struggled against Detroit, lost a bunch of close games to Anaheim, played .500 hockey against Dallas and Calgary, taken two of two from Minny and two of three from Colorado, and owned Vancouver.
It’s all just goalpost-moving. They’re losing, so they suck. Now they’re winning, but they’re not beating good enough teams, so they still suck. Should they win their remaining two games against Detroit this season, you’ll probably still be finding reasons to whine.
B!tch, b!tch, b!tch. Like I said to Phil upthread: get the sand out.
you just can’t stand someone pointing out your phony hypocrite posters, who want it one way only. they violate the very bs they spouted yesterday about even keel.
if all you want is a pollyanna board , then call it what it is.
I doubt if david pollak wants to call it the mercury news POLLYANNA SHARKS BOARD.
so, until he tells me that he wants to hear nothing but flowery glowing praise 24/7, a few of us will continue to be the balance weight against the cheerleaders
a few of us will continue to be
the balance weight against the cheerleadersobnoxious trolls with sand in our vaginasFixed that for you.
Thank you, PG.
you obviously are a gutless puke who can’t write a reasonable counter argument, so you have to resort to sixth grade tactics that reflect completely on you, not your target.
Thanks for the link BC… i think i finally found a cure for that nagging itch!
you obviously are a gutless puke who can’t write a reasonable counter argument, so you have to resort to sixth grade tactics that reflect completely on you, not your target.
Sonny, you wouldn’t know a “reasonable counter argument” if one swam up and bit you in the taint.
BC: Seems like you’re doing all the whining and bitching. I’m just having a conversation with other Shark fans. And obviously you’re only looking for one viewpoint because if you actually read my posts you would find that it isn’t all negative. There is hope there. But I guess you’re more into finding ways of being clever by posting links and such.
But I guess this is what the blog is for you is a way to rip other fans who don’t follow you’re exact viewpoint.
Anyway, you’re boring now, because you never come up with anything fresh to say. You’re like a robot. Grow up, douche.
Anyway, you’re boring now, because you never come up with anything fresh to say. You’re like a robot.
Un-freaking-believable. Do you guys even read what you write, here?
BC: Dude, you never have any takes. All you do is rail on people. You’re a bit of a dick.
Gf = “dave”… the same “dave” that has a personal vendetta against nabby because apparently nabokov either slept with his wife or kicked his dog. the same “dave” who accused nabokov of not wanting to start against anaheim a few games back.
Phil,
You were saying something about a Sharks Posters beer night… I almost said yes and glad I didn’t!
Wow, I’d be afraid that you and BC would get into it and then Snarky Realist (and all his multiple personalities) would show up and I’d have a Battle Royal with him…then Goaliepuke would come in and roll us all….no, perhaps it’s not such a good idea come to think of it. But I’m feeling ya.
Perhaps we could do a Sharks Posters UFC match?
I don’t take any of this too seriously. I’m sure it wouldn’t be such a big deal. I find we’re all a bit different when we’re behind a keyboard. Besides, kind of hard for me to get anywhere right now with a newborn and living in Los Angeles.
Phil,
Congratulations! It sure is a huge responsibility to raise children in a big city. You have my respect and best wishes! Can’t you get the nanny to watch your newborn and come up for the Cage Match? he, he,
But don’t you think it would be very interesting to get us all together (with police escort and/or security personnel) just to see how folks would really act without the anonymity of the “keyboard”.
What a sociology experiment…..or disaster.
Of course Sharkie Realist would have a very difficult time changing disguises and keeping track of the voices that go with each disguise. How many aliases does he have anyway?
Did the Ducks, not get whupped by the Kings last night? So they are not as yet the juggernaut of the Pacific Div.
Too quote one of my favorite Movie Characters..
Lloyd Christmas “So you’re saying there is a chance.”
I think Sharkie Realist is also Joe from a few blog articles ago. He hates, with a passion, Nabokov. It’s kind of funny actually.
Ah yes Loon… Dumb and Dumber… speaking of which… is it just me or is Pronger a spitting image of Lloyd?
check this link for a close up….
http://www.nhl.com/nhl/app/?service=page&page=NewsPage&articleid=351200
just needs to comb his bangs down and we have a match…
http://ifdb.lv/images/covers-big/dumb.jpg
A little bit of a stretch… but i despise Pronger
#97
no kidding. it’s as if nabby has done something to him/her personally.
This was from the postseasoon, but its really funny:
Per. 2 25 C. Pronger Penalty Min:2-Diving
Its from the official game summary online.
sorry, i meant the preseason
Bravo, Ronnie, Bravo!
Now….seriously, when will you answer the Parade question? ;p