Roenick, Carle ready to go against Coyotes
Notes from the morning skate and beyond . . .
Jeremy Roenick and Matt Carle are set to be in the lineup tonight against Phoenix with forwards Curtis Brown and Marcel Goc the prime candidates to become healthy scratches.
If that’s how it plays out, it means more double-shifting for Joe Thornton.
Roenick liked the timing of his return to the ice.
“I’m excited to be back in the lineup, especialy against the team we’re playing. That’s a
little more self-motivation for me,” said Roenick, who makes his home in Phoenix, but spent a relatively unhappy season with the Coyotes a year ago.
I know there’s a tendency to dismiss Phoenix as a quality opponent — maybe with good reason because the Sharks have won the last eight games between the two teams. But consider — if you eliminate the four games this season between San Jose and Phoenix, you’ll find that the Sharks and Coyotes have the same number of points, 32.
Just saying.
******** Say what you will, but I like it when Phoenix comes to town because that means TV analyst Darren Pang shows up in Ron Wilson’s office and it pretty much guarantees a good 30-minutes of lively — and sometimes even insightful — back-and-forth.
But credit Randy Hahn with steering the conversation in the most interesting direction today. The Sharks’ play-by-play announcer noted that while the Rangers and Sharks have given up the fewest goals in each conference, the two teams rank at the bottom (Rangers) or near the bottom (Sharks) when it comes to goal production. So Randy asked Wilson if teams need to sacrifice offense in order to keep the other team from scoring.
Here’s Wilson’s response:
“No, we have to play that way because some guys haven’t scored. They’re going to have to start scoring or we’re going to play these kinds of games. What do you think Anaheim’s doing right now? 1-0, 2-1 — that’s all you’re probably going to see for a while. That’s their strength and that’s one of our strengths.
“But the teams that end up winning at the end, that ends up being their strength anyway — how well they play defensively.
“We certainly didn’t set out to be No. 1 in the league defensively and not try to score. We’re trying to score, just that a couple guys haven’t.”
******* If you scroll deep into the comments on the previous posting, you’ll see the early signs of a debate on a column that appears in the Dec. 25 issue of The Hockey News. The cover headline — How the Sharks Conned Us — comes pretty close to summing up the points being made inside by Ray Ratto regarding the Sharks and their Stanley Cup aspirations. Ratto, as many of you probably know, writes for the San Francisco Chronicle, which, let me quickly point out, has all but eliminated any local hockey coverage this season.
That doesn’t mean, however, that Ratto doesn’t know hockey or doesn’t pay attention to the Sharks. He does. I’m not endorsing what he has to say — hey, I work for a competing paper and I’m a reporter, not a commentary guy — but few in this business have more fun making a case than Ratto. And it is a nicely provocative piece.
Thanks Dave for sharing the hot-stove from this afternoon in RW’s office, and for giving Ratto some professional (non-endorsing) courtesy. BTW…another note on the Coyotes - Which team has the 2nd best road record in the NHL? Hint: They’ll be in the building tonight, and based on their record against the Sharks this season, they’ll be angry. Even if they did fly in from Philly after an undefeated 4-game east trip yesterday. It’s no night off for team teal before we see the Ducks again Saturday.
They also have a different goalie than all the other times. Just so happens they got him from the dirtyducks. This won’t be a walk in the park.
I sure do hope the crowd is into it tonight. The team needs that 7th man out there.
I’ll clarify BEFORE I get skewered. Phx is tied with Ottawa with 11 road WINS, the Sharks have 12. After tonight Phoenix will have played 20 of their 33 games this season on the road.
That is true, and that what we’ve been debating here for weeks now. Marleau and Cheechoo are the two guys and they need to start scoring. That’s why they have the contracts they have. We also expect more offensive points from the defense, but they are too focused on defense, and I suppose it’s fine as our defensive play is not bad this season.
The problem is, how long do you wait for the Pat/Cheech to start producing? What if both will continue to choke the way they do and go into the spring with 10 goals each? Do you keep hoping that they’ll get their former selves back or do you make a trade before the playoffs?
Besides Drew Remenda, Darren Pang is one of the top 5 NHL TV colour guys. Love to hear that he and DWilson are meeting to spin some NHL buzz. Brian Engblom, Bill Clement, and Barry Melrose round out the group.
Throw in Joe Beninati (Caps), Randy Hahn (Sharks), Chris Cuthbert (TSN/NBC), Mike Emrick (Devils), and Jim Hughson (Canucks) as the top 5 NHL TV play-by-play guys and that’s 10 pro-sports/NHL broadcasting experts who can put the top 10 beer-gut clowns in the NFL and MLB combined to shame.
Bring back NHL on ESPN NOW!
Darren Pang is a complete idiot. He is such a homer. I just finished watching the game on the Phoenix network and he had absolutely no problem with Carcillo jumping another player. He thought every call against Phoenix was incorrect and that every call on the Sharks was warranted.
But, this is a pathetic team right now. They show heart for a period of time, but then they lose it. Why can’t they overcome adversity? BC, what in your proper opinion is the reason? Why can’t guys bury a shot? When Doan scored his goal everyone was standing around. Why can’t these guys play a full game?
This was so frustrating to watch. Partly because I had to listen to Pang talk about how the Coyotes are getting hosed the whole game, and then the lack of passion. I saw McLaren just holding the puck waiting for someone to steal it. I saw Marleau skate right by someone instead of laying a simple body check. I saw Carle, Ehrhoff, McLaren, and Ozolish all losing the puck constantly. Roenick was pretty much the only spark they had.
And what about the five minute major. Have the Sharks ever scored on a five minute major? Seriously, that was pathetic. Let’s go offsides or ice it. I can’t believe this team right now.
OK, if this is a team that has a realistic goal of the Stanley Cup, they have to make some serious changes. The play is so inconsistent. BC, can you disagree with that? Do you honestly think this team can win a Cup playing the way they are playing? Does this team have a realistic chance of getting out of the first round. The team is barely above .500 (if you count the losses as real losses, which they really are). As of yesterday the Sharks would be playing Colorado. I’ll be honest, the Avalanche would probably finish us off in 5.
RW to coaches, “Ahhh 50 seconds to go and a power play…it’s in the bag. No need to remind our team to play hard for FIFTY more seconds”. Unf*c*in* believable.
Watching the 5 minute major power play wanted to make me puke until I watched the 5 on 3 portion. 5 Guys standing in their little spots…NOT ONE OF THEM MOVING TO MAKE THE DEFENSE MOVE! Utterly ridiculous that Roenick has to score on a lucky no-angle shot from the goal line. Then 4 on 3 PP’s in overtime - TWICE! And they can’t make the D move enough to create an open chance.
I’m disgusted.
If DW has any balls, he fires all 3 coaches at 8am tomorrow. They all failed tonight.
Nobody but Joe is scoring consistently.
Another blown game. The Coyotes look much improved. THe Sharks have got to stop finding ways to lose. They managed to get a two goal lead and that was it.
Just got home from the game. Yes, another loss at home, but this game was much more entertaining to watch. I wouldn’t be so hard on the offense - Bryzgalov played a perfect game tonight.
Defense, however, is another story, but luckily Nabby saved their butts multiple times. I dread to see what happens when he decides to take a break.
One positive thing about the power play was that in the first two periods players were actually moving around, and wow - we did not stupidly dump the puck in on every chance. Bryzgalov was out of control. However, in the third period it all went back to the old ways - dump it in, send it to Joe and sit and wait. 1 goal on 9 powerplays with one of them being a 5 minute one? Pathetic. That’s the cause for all of our recent problems.
Davey: I don’t know why this team struggles at home. And I make no excuses for the play that led to Doan’s goal — that was terrible, shades of the Detroit series last year.
I’m baffled, though, as to how anybody can claim with a straight face that this is a team that lacks emotion/passion. The energy was there, tonight. It tapered off a bit in the second period, but the Sharks were coming in waves and had Phoenix on their heels for a large part of the game. Hell, even the much-maligned and supposedly-soft Patrick Marleau took a fighting major, when he wasn’t backchecking like a crazy person trying to deal with Phoenix’s aggressive transition (notice how much more confidently the ‘Yotes play with a halfway-to-decent goaltender behind them?).
The passing was not crisp, and the defense continues to handcuff the forwards on entry into the offensive zone by failing to dump the puck with authority. Thus the power play looks like a mess. On the other hand, I don’t know how you assign blame to the coaches for Erhoff’s and Rivet’s desperate need to pass the puck into forwards’ skates at the offensive blueline. Or McLaren standing around doing an impression of a roadcone. Or Setoguchi whiffing on not one, not two, but three separate one-time feeds from Joe Thornton. Or Grier shooting at the logo on Bryzgalov’s chest on a clean breakaway.
So, yes, there is inconsistency. Yes, there are flaws. Yes, as of this moment I would not pick this team to compete for the Cup. That doesn’t mean you fire the coaches or trade away key guys who are struggling, just to try and shake things up.
Yaa, I’m disgusted with this game. Woulda, shoulda, coulda! Very sloppy hockey on both sides. Tape-to-tape passing — unavailable. If the puck bounced anymore than it did,. the refs could have called traveling and double dribble violations. Every close up thay had of the ice on the HD screen — nothing but slush and holes. Management should be embarrassed at the ice conditions. OK, nuff said.
Both goalies were hung out to dry tonight and both teams were playing kindof a trap — that wasn’t executed well. What a combo, BORING hockey with lots of scoring chances. Both goalies played great — they had to. From the Shark forward skaters, I expected a lot more. Neither team did, but the Sharks never supported each other — they weren’t on the same page. Some mentioned McClaren was waiting for the puck to get stolen — whoever that was — you don’t know what you’re watching. I know the exact play you’re talking about. There was nobody for McClaren to pass the puck to. That happened all night, not just with that play. Point is you don’t blame Kyle for not having an outlet somewhere.
And, the coach did do the right thing during 5 min PP(1st 4 min you could only call a Penalty Kill). RW Called a timeout on the icing! Perfect timing. The camera view was perfect. Embarrassing for the players — YES! If you read his lips…We did in my section. They scored soon after the tongue lashing to make it 2-1.
And yes, the PP at the end of the game to allow the tieing goal — BRUTAL. Basic fundementals would have prevented any shot.
Still, you don’t need trades or firings. A few good things did happen tonight. After the ‘Yotes PP goal, they responded quicky to tie the game. The captain recorded a fight after they clearly ran our goalie and other stuff (hard to see everything that went on). They responded to an embarassing but strategic timeout and took the lead in the game. Also, you could tell they worked on the power play. They were moving and skating without the puck until the OT — those 2 PPs were frustrating. I’m NOT saying they executed the PP well, but I could tell they were doing different things — especially compared to the last 3 games.
Ivano, not sure how you say this game was entertaining to watch. This is surreal, just when I think I have some agreements with most of you, you decide that seeing a bad hockey game, helped by poor play by the Sharks is entertaining. I just don’t get it — well I do. But I’ve talked about those reasons before and it just doesn’t matter.
Somebody complained about guys whiffing on some shots. I saw a handful or more of passes and shots that were missed because the puck bounced over there stick. the most noteable, was early in the 1st period. Setegucci I think had a wide open net on the left side. The pass would have been perfect but it bounced over his stick at just the right time to squish harmlessly to the boards. It didn’t just happen to the Sharks either. If management thinks playing in slush is an advantage, they need to look at our home record. The players aren’t allowed to complain about it. I can tell ya — under their breath, behind the scenes, they aren’t happy.
Davey, those losses you talked about. They are not real losses. The NHL knows that. That is why they are separated out from an actual loss. A SO loss is not real hockey, at leat NHL hockey. I know nobody that actually likes it as part of the game. There are many in my section at the tank that agree.
It is nothing more than a Marketing play to make people think someone won the hockey game. I will say — can be entertaining. AS a hokey fan first, I hate it!
My opinion, it’s an insult to the teams that actually win in regulation or overtime to give a SO win a full extra point. If it were legit, they would use it in the playoffs.
Come on, guys, it’s California. It’s impossible to have Canadian quality of ice here. Ice in Anaheim is still much worse than in San Jose, yet no one prevented the Ducks from winning the Cup and have dominant offense throughout the whole season last year. I’m not even sure why you guys mention it. None of the players or coaches talk about that as reasons for losses, than why should we?
Scott -
Let’s see. How was this not entertaining? Around 40 shots from each team, unbelievable saves by both goalies, plenty of body checks all over the ice, Sharks coming back from a deficit, two major fights, Roenick tying for the 2nd spot in the US goal records, Gretzky in attendance, Thornton showing off mad dribbling skills at least twice in the game, chances to score all game long, crazy game scenario, shootouts - how can this be boring? That was all we love about hockey, in one game. Sure, we only got 1 point out of it, but I’d rather spend my money watching this kind of hockey than a sleeper I saw couple of days ago against Anaheim. It’s OK for a Stanley Cup game, but it’s still December outside.
Mike in #8, are you quinching your thirst heavily? Joe only got an assist tonight because JR threw one at the net. (Torrey was in the crease btw helping to distract the goalie). And, The Sharks never had a two goal lead.
You are right ’bout one thing, the Sharks blew this game.
Scott -
Shootout is a lottery (hence, lack of it in the playoffs), but comes with a point. Americans hate not seeing a winner, so they had to introduce it to the game. Most fans, including myself, like it. I like it for skill that players and goalies show and for its unpredictability. Otherwise NHL would not introduce it, and European leagues would not follow its example.
I bet you’d like it more if we didn’t suck so bad in shootouts, both offensively and on the part of Nabokov who can’t stop jack.
At least I understand why you think that — and I can give it some due. But, the reasons for all that stuff you mentioned was bad hockey. Missed assignments, bad decisions, not playing on the same page and executing the plan. See ing every team play a trap to prevent a stretch pass, every night. Very boring to me. It kill offense. I thought that’s what the NHL was after. Scoring is down, defensive hockey like this, supports parity. The last 3 games, Dallas and Ducks, were more entertaining only because both teams each game played the plan well. It’s a trap, but they executed. Scoring chances were legit. Tonights game — the tying goal with 40 seconds, not legit because of bad hockey. I’ll give them credit. They drew this up during their timeout. The Sharks didn’t even persue fundementals and consider playing any defense.
HeHe “mad dribbling skills” LOL. Maybe Joe could be a GlobeTrotter? The ice isn’t an excuse for losing the game. Ice conditions detract from all the skilled players abilities. IMO, it hurts the Sharks tremendously when you can’t showcase your skilled players.
It’s been colder in the tank lately. They might be trying. But tonight was the worst I’ve ever seen the ice in my memory. It will be bad Sat night too. There’s an event Friday night with the whole ice covered with matts and a dance floor, etc. “I went to a basket ball game and a hockey game broke out.”
I agree, the Sharks and SO don’t go together. I started playing and watching about 35 years ago. There is more tradition in hockey than given credit for. Hockey is a team game too — that’s all it can be. Players celebrate every goal like it’s their last because it’s very hard to get a goal. The shootout is not hockey. I don’t think its right to be used in the olympics either. I was dead set against when they started it in the AHL too.
It’s much different than a penalty shot too. A penalty shot get awarded whe the defender could follow the rules to prevent you from shooting — all a result from some kind of a team play that did or didn’t happen.
Your right I think, Its adopted because of the US mis-perception of hockey. There are many in the US that think they have adopt a European mindset. That’s another subject though.
Forgot to mention, everthing you say about skill players and goalies, etc in the SO. That makes the entertaining part of it. I can live with it for those reasons, but only give it a HALF point. It’s not real hockey. I don’t like seeing games decided by lottery.
Scott -
Like I said before, we tend to hate SO because we lose most of the time, and because none of our players are too skilled with the puck. I love watching Detroit, Washington, Pittsburgh, Dallas on the SO to see what Datsyuk, Ovechkin, Crosby and Zubov can do with the puck. That’s like all-star skills competition on a regular basis. But just like everyone else, I cringe each time Marleau is on the attempt, or Cheechoo, or whoever on our team, except Pavelski. Boy he got unlucky with that try yesterday.
As to the trap, the rules did tone it down over time. I watched part of the Wings - Devils series from 95 Stanley Cup final on NHLN, and it was disgusting to watch how dirty the Devils played in the central zone and around the boards. Most of their hooks, checks and close play would today easily resulted in penalties, yet at the time that pretty much won the Stanley Cup single handedly for them (well, and young Brodeur). What I think we’re seeing in our case is teams playing physical in central zone against the Sharks because they know we love dumping the puck in as soon as we see there are three opposing players right outside of the blue line, and that we don’t do a great job on the boards and with dumping in. I don’t see much of that when I watch other teams play. Maybe I’m off, but that’s my observation.
The shoot out is a joke, I agree. Quality wins don’t mean as much in the NHL. How about 3 point games. 3 points for a quality win, 2 for OT win, 1 for OT loss. Based on that system we would have won the Pacific last year.
The Sharks need to invest in quality fulltime dehumidifiers to keep moisture out of the building. Moisture kills ice and softens it more then warmth does. I don’t mind wearing an extra shirt to stay warm, but all the moist body heat added to the already moist air is an ice killer.
As for the game and the Sharks, do I really care anymore? Is there anything else to add that hasn’t already been said? Was it boring hockey, or a great game to watch because of all the shots? I DON’T KNOW CAUSE I DON’T CARE. And uh Jamison, that is the kind of blog that should scare you half to death.
I want to see Thornton more in the shootout.
new to this